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“We are going to get everything due us,” Pusha T remembers thinking when he and Malice embarked upon their reunion as the rap group Clipse. With that mindset, the brothers Terrence and Gene Thornton stormed into 2025 with a new album and a vengeance, both reasserting their legacy as two of the best coke rap MCs to ever do it and establishing themselves as formidable contenders in the contemporary hip-hop landscape. Let God Sort Em Out is, after their more than 15-year hiatus, one of the most authoritative comebacks the genre has ever seen—if you dare describe it as such. Push and Malice would rather you recognize the album as them delivering on the level they have always done, all while deepening their range.
Before the album came out this summer, I had a fiery conversation with them for GQ where they staked their claim as the best rap duo out there and aired out all outstanding beefs (and revealed some new ones); that interview became the de facto start to the year’s most engaging album rollout. Since we last talked, they’ve solidified their status as having the best rap album of the year, headlined a nationwide tour big enough to bring the reclusive Kendrick Lamar out for a cameo, and made history as the first rappers to perform at the Vatican.
Next up? Pursuing their first-ever Grammy.
Pusha T: You got to understand, we’re creating this music, but we’re also trying to really re-create the enthusiasm amongst ourselves. We got the enthusiasm, but we’re trying to see it and feel it in the world. I’m not getting up, going to 7-Eleven, picking up a mag, arguing with my man about somebody got three-and-a-half mics.
Those touchpoints aren’t really out here like that anymore. People aren’t sitting down with Frazier. They’re not! They won’t do it, bro! They’re surprise-dropping the music so they don’t have to get no feedback on nothing. This is what they’ll do versus like, “Yo. Let’s put it on the table. We really standing on it.” People talk about standing on business. This is the best way to do it musically.
Pusha T: Exactly. When you talk about the nostalgia of hip-hop journalism, what it meant being hot in the streets, the chatter, the opinions, the lunch-table arguments, the barbershop arguments—that’s what the whole mindset of that rollout was about.
Pusha T: That was definitely my mentality. But I feel like in my heart, I was like, we are going to get everything due us. It’s got to look a certain way, be a certain way, feel a certain way. The trifecta of myself, my brother, and Pharrell…. There’s nobody else that we need musically to do what we got to do. Just our circle. People who are not with the agenda, I don’t want to be connected to it. Selfishly, I don’t want nothing to do with anyone. How about that? [Laughs.] That’s just what it is.
Malice: Yeah, but look who’s saying that, though. Because on the other end of that spectrum, there are people who really see clearly that Pusha don’t lean on that kind of stuff. And look how long he sat on what has been going on. But that’s what they do on the other side. So they think that we play that over here, but nah, we don’t. And we don’t snitch and we don’t tell.
Pusha T: You can’t let the journalism be a main focus of the rollout and you tiptoe around shit. I wasn’t going to come in and give you scenarios, and be tiptoeing around the stories. I’ll take the criticism, it’s fine. But never call me a liar. Because I never lie. I never lie. Lemme tell you something: I think lying’s for bitches. If you lie about shit, that’s because you’re scared of something, and I’m not scared of anything or anybody. So what I say is what I say.
Pusha T: It’s something that I feel like I’ve learned, and I’ve learned it a lot from watching my brother too. He doesn’t get ruffled by anything that happens. He goes with the flow of everything. I’ve never had that approach—man, I try to keep everything in line, in order. This is how it’s supposed to go. And with this particular project, man, I couldn’t have been more wrong in having that attitude.
Malice: Well, I’ve always had the same approach he had. I learned this approach. I was taught this approach.
Malice: Because life will hand you a bunch of curveballs and trying to be in control and manage everything can put you at your wit’s end—and then it still happens the way that it was meant to happen. So that’s just something that I learned in this 16-year absence for sure.
Pusha T: No, for sure. Are you kidding me, man? And to think we had the heat. When we make it, we are extremely confident about it and eager to put it out. It’s all about letting people hear it. You know what I’m saying? And just getting yourself in the conversation and taking the critiques, the good with the bad. That’s the type of energy we thrive off of. It’s always competitive, but it’s always about hearing the opinions and just being like, you know, they might be a little right about that, or whatever the case may be. I just love to hear it all, but not being able to get it out, man, it’s stifling. We know what the hell we doing at all times. When it’s cooked, it’s cooked. And we know it’s cooked. There’s never extras and leftovers. It’s not a lot of going back and retinkering and retooling. I let Pharrell do that on production stuff. But as far as these raps go, no way.
Pusha T: I think we find it’s a lot of different emotions that go into that process. But then you get into the stubbornness of knowing exactly what you want and not wanting to waver. I’m extremely passionate about hard-core, lyric-driven hip-hop. I think that’s where you show your skill set. I don’t think that ever goes out of style. And I don’t think a lot of people can do it with taste and swag. So if that’s not the target or the bull’s-eye—after song one, two, or three, I’m getting pissed. P’s like, “Nah, man, you need these colors.” I’m like, “Man, listen, you better get to it.”
Sometimes we’ll be in there and P will be tinkering with something that we absolutely hate, but you sit back and you let him go through his process. While he’s going through his process, he’s also watching you and he’s knowing that you’re not moved, and he’ll find something or strike a chord that actually does make you move. And he’ll be like, “Oh, I got you.” Strip everything else down that he was doing and then hone in on that, and then he starts building again.
Malice: “Mike Tyson Blow to the Face.”
Malice: I started hearing whispers that that song was not going to be on it, and there was no way in the world I was going to let that happen.
Pusha T: Aye man, players fuck up too. I believe the “P.O.V.” portion of it was a lot of production tinkering, and I was watching [Pharrell] battle himself, even with the switching of the beat on Malice’s verse.
Malice: And see, that speaks to what we’re saying about the process, because I was hot that the beat changed. When I write to a beat and flow, it’s like I’m married to it. It’s the canvas, it’s the foundation. It’s what I’m laying to, so I don’t want it changed later. But the response to [the switch] has been crazy so you have to trust Pharrell that he knows what he’s doing.
Pusha T: I just don’t think everybody’s a producer. I think there’s a huge difference between beat makers and producers. There’s a level of cohesiveness that our fans are accustomed to in the raps, in the production, in the flow, and the marriage of it all. I don’t know if [other producers’] vision is as intricate. I mean, there’s a lot of people with dope beats out there, but there’s always been a big emphasis put on composition in dealing with Pharrell, even as far back as the Neptunes. So I think that has set us apart in all [our] albums. I think that’s what actually broke the Clipse through.
Pusha T: Oh really? 50-50? [Laughs.] There’s been a little 70-30, 80-20, from what I’ve been hearing.
Malice: What I think it is: As far as me and the verses, Pusha’s been the only one rapping all this time, to me, in lyric-driven hip-hop. So I think people do get taken aback a little bit when they understand that he has a brother and we come from the same school. But this has always been our setup. This isn’t new. Push would come in, usually he’ll do the first verse. Most times Push will make it to the studio before me, so it starts building from that point. I don’t mind being the cleanup man.
Malice: I can appreciate that question because I didn’t really start hearing how much people enjoyed my two solo projects until we were out doing interviews. But I definitely understand why it didn’t get the mainstream light. But I even feel that on those projects, I was rapping my best. What I learned about myself is what I was learning in life: my experiences, the inventory that I was taking on myself, the corrections that needed to be made. I just felt totally free to speak it. I wasn’t sharing a platform. I didn’t have to share anything. It’s just me, uninhibited, going crazy. It was definitely therapeutic.
Malice: Because it’s applicable, period. Everything that I’ve learned, everything that I’ve experienced, and the fact that I’ve walked the walk that I walk makes me relatable. And it’s not like some strange doctrine that I’m talking about. People know me, they see me. They see me in my highs, they see me in my lows. They see me in my conflict. So if you know anything about me, you can’t say, That guy’s crazy. If you ever related to me, you can’t say, He’s off. You know who I am. You’ve been seeing who I am all this time. You’ve experienced my music, my art, so I’m definitely who you think I am.
Malice: Oh man.
Pusha T: No, I don’t think so. At the end of the day, the skill set is speaking volumes.
Malice: It’d be so easy, man. It is not even about us trying to outdo the last thing we’ve done. It’s just so much opportunity. When people speak about the album, it is incredible because I’m hearing healing. I feel like they have lost the sense that this kind of intellect exists. Where have y’all been? And that’s not no kind of arrogance. It needs to be shared. Everybody needs to uplift each other. We heard from the beginning that the feeling has been restored, so it’s not like people weren’t aware of it. We just haven’t had it in so long and we’re bringing it to you. And I believe that there’s going to be more.
Pusha T: There’s more music coming, man.
Malice: How could we not, bro?
Malice: Shout out, JID.
Pusha T: Yeah, shout out, JID, man.
Malice: Because he raps.
Pusha T: He raps, man. Those who do have the skill set—again, we find the enjoyment in that.
Pusha T: Yeah, man. You find a competitive spirit, but you also just find that love of hip-hop that we know, when this was only the criteria. Artists like JID take it to a time where you had to know how to rap to be on a song.
Pusha T: Yeah, I think you can’t let it go.
Pusha T: I’d love to do it all. Specifically Drama. But, man, it’s been therapeutic to be doing the Clipse. You mentioned all the solo stuff, but it’s like a weight lifted off my shoulder. And I feel like with my solo projects, it was always drama. Being able to take a step back from it and be with my brother.…
Malice: [Laughs.] It still bled over. It still bled over.
Pusha T: Yeah, it bleeds over. But be with my brother and create from a different mindset. I feel like my solo mindset was just all war. With Clipse, you tap into those things, but you get to tap into other emotions as well.
Malice: We’ve been an open book. We talk about everything concerning us and things that we think our fans want to hear, and anything that lends itself to good music and good art.
Pusha T: And truth.
Malice: Because we don’t make a record and hide behind it. We get in front of it. We talk to people like yourself and let you look at it and let you pick it apart. But either way we face it.
Malice: Listen, everybody has a right to do what they do. Whatever you have the power to do, whatever tools you have to utilize. That goes for everybody, even us. Let’s just play and see what it is. We embrace it all and love it all. Ain’t no sitting around moping and wishing—nah, let’s rock.
Pusha T: You cheat. We cheat. Everybody cheats. Fuck it.
Pusha T: Lemme tell you something. That’s corny. If you knew what I thought about botting, you wouldn’t even do that to me. Bro, what? You know how fire the Let God Sort Em Out tour was?
Malice: We started that when we did it at home, right? We were just saying, We have to do “Virginia” at home [in Virginia].
Pusha T: Yeah, we just waited [until that tour stop].
Malice: But it’s a mainstay everywhere.
Pusha T: Let me tell you a problem we have that we discuss when it comes to the set list. We like to say the fans are 16 to 60. Sometimes skews a little younger, sometimes skews a little higher. And there are many different points at when people got introduced to Clipse. You got some people from ’02. Some people started in 2010. Some people who started 2024, 2023. Collectively, you want everybody to be in unison with their energy.
I watch the crowd divide in half when “Momma I’m So Sorry” comes on and you can see who was there in ’06 and you can see who’s getting FOMO. So we’re fighting a lot of different battles in trying to maintain that energy.
Pusha T: It is definitely a proud moment. But every night someone cries.
Malice: Every night a lot of people cry.
Pusha T: It’s a major moment in the set list where we feel like we got everybody’s attention and everybody can relate whether they’ve been through it, whether they’re feeling like that day could be coming. You see parents with kids, feeling it.
Malice: I’m hearing a lot of people saying that it’s helped them to process their grief. And I think just us putting it on display, seeing that you get through it and life continues to go on and it’s something that everybody goes through. To be able to talk about it and give language to it helps a lot of people.
Malice: You got to understand, to us, we have already been validated with our art form and the music that we put out. So to be able to walk it into a Grammy nomination, you got to first have the product, then you connect to the plug. You know what I’m saying?
Pusha T: Man, I’m hearing it. Bringing home that hardware would mean everything. We going for it. We made the album, we looked at it, like, this is that strong. We need to take something home for this.
So when the album dropped and the response is crazy, did you get the “My bad” text from Hov?
Pusha T: Nah, we didn’t get that text. There’s always time for a Hov verse, in our eyes. Whether he looks at it like that or not, that’s just how we think. We make music on such a level that we’ll always be able to find one and be like, “Hey man, this one for you.”
Malice: I think it’s great for us.
Pusha T: Yeah, I think it’s great for us, but I think we also have blinders on right now to everything that does not root itself in the skill set. So some shit is fun, it’s cool, but when it come to this, it’s like, man, this is speaking volumes over everything. Let God Sort Em Out is speaking volumes over everything to me. I’m watching people, I’m watching artists, people now care about the rollout. Now they want to sit down.
Malice: And the curtain’s been pulled back. The fans now know what they ain’t been getting.
Pusha T: And they know the tricks of it all. They see it all, they hear it all. They know what’s up.
Pusha T: I mean, listen, it’s whatever with Stove.
Malice: If it leaves you wanting more, then we did it right.
Pusha T: I think that him doing the hook was a great showcase too; it shows how much we think of him. And I think it got across to the public, like, this is the guy who made that. That may be hook of the year, bro. If not, it’s close.
Malice: Yeah, definitely.
Malice: So, I like talking about what I like talking about. And just seeing the people, the things that they are in need of, that we are all in need of—I see it in my comments, I see it in the DMs, things that I’ve spoken to that lit up the listener. And they want to hear more of it. And I have tons of information that I cannot die with it in me. So I just want to share more.
Pusha T: I feel like we came up very faith-based. Kids in church, kids in Sunday school, had to go. I don’t speak about it as much. I’m also not as well-versed. But I know who’s responsible for it all.
Malice: And anytime my nephew is praying for me and saying grace and all of that.
Pusha T: Oh man, it is the best thing.
Malice: You don’t see the change in him?
Malice: Oh man, listen, first of all, one of the things is when we’re in the studio, he’s ready to get out of the studio, quick, and get to Nige. Even being on the road, he’s ready to get off the road and get to Nige. He’s a different man.
Pusha T: Not being home is the biggest struggle.
Malice: He just said this to me the other day, all this is for Nige and his wife. And that’s who he comes out here and works for and that’s where his mindset is, for sure.
Pusha T: No, I don’t think it’s a difference. I think I’m just more intentional about everything. You don’t have to make the mistakes. You can just be very intentional about everything and that’s all it is. Focus.
Pusha T: I haven’t. I probably should though. I don’t know how good of a parent I am. I reward for bad shit and all type of shit. I’m crazy. I’m not home a lot, so it’s like when it comes to reprimanding and all of that, I’m not the one.
Malice: He does great, man. Very inspiring.
Pusha T: One thousand percent. Oh my God, man. Are you kidding me? Yes. He has a clear understanding [Shows a video of Nigel rapping Malice’s verse on “P.O.V.”].
Pusha T: Clip’s loaded.
Malice: And one in the head.
Frazier Tharpe is GQ’s senior associate editor.
This interview has been condensed and edited from a video you can see here.
A version of this story originally appeared in the December 2025/January 2026 issue of GQ with the title “Clipse: Rappers of the Year”.
PRODUCTION CREDITS:
Portfolio by Tyrell Hampton
Styled by George Cortina
Hair by Teddy Charles
Skin by Holly Silius using Cosrx
Tailoring by Yelena Travkina
Set design by Heath Mattioli
Produced by Camp Productions
Photographed on location at Chateau Marmont