Margot Robbie & Charli xcx Have an Epic Conversation

You were the first and only name I ever heard her say.

Oh, wow.

And then to now it's to the point

where you've done a Wuthering Heights album.

[Charli XCX] Yeah.

Like we were just hoping for one song.

[groovy music]

First time we met was at the studio

when we watched Wuthering Heights for the first time.

Yeah, and that was the first time

you were seeing the film as well?

Very first time I saw it, yeah.

And you cried? I did.

I cried, did you cry?

I didn't cry,

but I have a heart stone, so.

You have what?

I have a heart of stone.

Do you cry a lot in movies?

Like when I'm watching? Yeah.

You know, it's really hit or miss

depending on where I am and what I'm going through.

Sometimes I'm a really big crier

and I'm in like a deep crying phase

and sometimes like the saddest thing

can be happening in front of me

and I'll just be like, yeah.

Do you cry a lot in real life?

Yes.

Oh really? Yeah, I'm a wreck.

You're like Kathy, she cries at the drop of a hat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But no, I remember watching with you

and it was, you know, us and Emerald,

and Finn who worked on the soundtrack with me.

And I think it must have been a really

sort of immense experience for you

to watch yourself in such a kind of like,

it's sort of the love story, you know?

Yeah.

And it's funny because that was like the first

of many iterations of the movie.

Yeah. And of course

you watched it so early too

because you were working on all the songs.

And to see it kind of evolve

and to see the versions

that this movie also could have been,

and then to know the place where we ended up.

Mm.

And I'm so happy where we ended up,

I think it ended up in the place of like,

this gives you maximum satisfaction as an audience member,

like maximum feel.

How do you feel when,

obviously you are kind of wearing like two hats

in that scenario where obviously you are the actor

but you are also the producer.

Do you find it hard to kind of like separate the two

sort of styles of notes that you're giving?

Or now that you've kind of been doing it for quite a while,

is it very sort of like easy and effortless

for you to sort of bounce between those two roles

whilst watching yourself in a film?

I have always found it easy to compartmentalize.

Even at the beginning of producing,

I could easily watch something and be like, right, okay,

no, it's weird when she does that and blah, blah blah.

And like, I don't even think of it as being like,

when I do that,

I'm like, when she does that,

no, we don't need that and da da da.

Did you know from sort of the beginning

that you always wanted to produce?

I didn't know that I wanted to produce, per se,

I knew that I wanted to do more,

have a handle on more of the filmmaking process.

Like just acting in a film,

it didn't feel like enough,

I wanted more of the experience.

The way I articulated it to my producing partners,

Josey and Tom, back in the day.

So when we met in 2013

and I said, What do you guys wanna do?

And they said, Oh, we wanna produce.

And I was like, Yeah, I wanna make my own stuff too,

so let's do that together.

So that's how I thought of it,

as I said, I wanna make my own stuff

as opposed to I wanna be a producer,

and then we started a production company

and, you know, that was 11, 12 years ago now.

Yeah wow. So yeah.

And then of course it became producing.

Yeah. But in my head

it was just like, I wanna make movies

was always the thing I wanted to do.

Did you find like part of the drive

of you wanting to make your own stuff

was because you were craving roles

that weren't in existence for you?

Or was it more just like you had stories to tell

and you wanted to tell them in your way?

It was never like,

there are roles I wanna play

so if I don't make them, they'll never happen.

Yeah. It was more like,

it's so crazy to me that every time I read a script,

the dudes are the most interesting characters,

Right, yeah sure. And I was like,

this is just crazy,

like, can't we just have a few more stories

where like the actresses reading it are gonna be like,

Yes, I've got the best role.

Yeah, yeah. 'Cause so many times

I was like, He's got the best role,

he's got the best role, he's got the best role.

And it'd be nice, you know,

I'll do that role I guess,

because it'd be cool to be in this movie.

A lot of the drive and the reason like LuckyChap

is so like female focused

is because some of those earliest conversations were,

why can't we have more scripts

where the women have the best roles.

I love the process so much of making a movie

and I am quite, you know, business minded too.

I like going through schedules and budgets

and doing the financing stuff.

It's like- Go off, babe,

I love that. I kind of like it,

so yeah. Yeah, yeah.

And there's a lot of that with producing.

Yeah, I mean, I've sort of just begun that journey myself

and for me-

Did you produce The Moment

Yeah, yeah. Cool.

Was that the first film that you've produced?

Yes, yes, yes.

[Margot] How'd you find it?

I found it to be such a hard and fast learning curve.

We were really on this like, expedited timeline,

which brought this energy to the film,

which you can really feel.

There is this kind of like super sort of like

spontaneous feeling to the cinematography,

and to the score,

and even the performances

'cause we weren't ever really shooting traditional coverage.

It was always sort of like

using the camera almost as a character in a way where like,

sometimes if the camera got bored,

it would just sort of like-

Drift off. Drift off.

Cool. Which was really,

it is kind of like an interesting like,

and quite dynamic way to work with something

that can sometimes feel quite like start and stop

when you are, you know,

trying to get like the specific coverage and shots,

and things like that.

So it was like a,

I would say a very specific project to produce in a way.

How different was it to putting together like an album

or even a music video? Gosh.

Because I feel like that's, each of those things

feel like they're projects in themselves

and then you like,

you kind of produce it, I guess,

when you're like,

Okay, I need to pull together a team of people

to help execute this vision.

I imagine you're like,

I have a vision for this song,

if it's a video clip, let's say like, or an album.

Like, I have a vision for what I need,

and now I need to bring in these kind of people-

Yeah. To do that.

It's funny, it's like, with me with my records,

I'm quite insular.

Like with Brat, for example,

it was like me kind of stewing since like the end of 2022

about like the themes of the album,

like certain like marketing beats that I wanted to do

without even having made any music,

and that was very kind of like alone.

And then eventually down the line I would be like,

I know I wanna put the album cover

on a big sort of like outdoor space,

whether that's like on a truck,

on a wall, on a building, like,

and then we kind of like workshop

how we could like make it happen.

And it kind of, you bring more people in

and it becomes this really kind of enriching

like, creative conversation which I really like.

With music videos,

I mean, God, babe, they're so last minute,

I can't even tell you.

It is like a true nightmare.

I got that impression with your Wuthering Heights album.

Like we were getting sent through like concepts

and they're like,

And they're shooting this like on Thursday.

And I'm like- Yeah.

Oh my gosh, that's crazy. Yes, it's very much like

with a couple of videos I've done recently,

I made this video with Billie Eilish called Guess

and I think we like decided we were gonna do it on Monday

and by Thursday we were shooting it.

That's mad. And it's a scramble.

It's very-

It's like old school filmmaking.

It is, it's a scramble,

and you are like, trying to find the money,

like trying to find the extras,

trying to find, it's like [yells].

And then sometimes it just,

the magic comes together and it happens.

And I think what's very interesting is

because I come from that world

now to sort of beginning to start,

you know, working in film,

I'm a bit like,

Well, let's go. Yeah.

And they're like,

Yeah, but we don't like have to like do it like that.

And I'm like, But why not, let's go.

Let's go, let's start shooting.

They're like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, let's prep.

Yeah, yeah exactly, exactly.

It's been very interesting

to sort of learn like the pacing differences

between the two things.

I mean, when did you and Emerald

first know that you were gonna do this together?

Do Wuthering? Yeah.

I think she's wanted to make Wuthering Heights

since she was a teenager,

but I knew that she wanted to do Wuthering Heights,

she told us when we were doing Saltburn,

she said, I know what the next thing is

that we're gonna do,

we're gonna do 'Wuthering Heights.'

And I was like, great,

because we've worked as producer,

you know, producer, director,

producer, producer for so long,

you know, Promising Young Woman

and then Saltburn,

and then we started out, you know,

I was just the producer on this as well.

And then to make the first move to be like,

By the way, you know, I wouldn't mind playing Kathy.

It was kind of like doing like

the yawn and the arm over someone.

And it's like, it's honestly leaning in to kiss your friend

and hoping that they feel that way about you too.

And then they're like,

I don't wanna ruin our friendship,

did I make it weird by like, you know,

like trying to take this thing,

we already have a dynamic

and now I'm adding a layer to it

and have I ruined it now.

I don't want her to feel like she has to say yes to this

in any way.

And she was like, I feel the same.

Yeah, but no, it wasn't until we were like

in the casting process really

that I threw my hat in the ring.

Before that I was just thinking of it as a producer.

Yeah, and how was it kind of

sort of transitioning your relationship with Emerald

from, you know, mainly sort of working on projects

as a producer to acting? Honestly,

I think we both compartmentalize really easily.

I think we're both kinda like,

okay, we're talking as producers now,

and then we swap and I'm like,

I'm your actor, you're my director.

I don't know, we can like switch gears pretty quickly.

And I have to say,

you were in some of our very first conversations.

No, I'm not even joking,

I'm not even saying this 'cause we're doing a thing.

Like, she was like,

Okay, so it's gonna be like 'Wuthering Heights.'

When she started describing it,

she was like,

I want it to feel like a 50s sound stage musical,

and it's gonna have like some amazing,

hopefully like, you know,

like, I want like an original song from like Charlie XCX.

And I was like, Ooh, cool, okay.

And then I'm like, you know,

I'm like, okay so it's gonna have like modern elements

and it's gonna, you know,

I'm kind of calibrating what the vision is sort of thing.

But you were the first and only name I ever heard her say.

Oh, wow.

And then you to now to the point

where you've done a Wuthering Heights album.

[Charli XCX] Yeah.

Like we were just hoping for one song.

The fact that you A, said yes to that,

but then you were like,

I want some more.

And we were like, Yes.

Well, to be honest,

I just, I felt so inspired by the screenplay.

It was such a visceral first read.

She text me out of the blue

and I mean, we like know each other a little bit,

but prior to that text, like, you know,

in a very kind of like,

Hey, like, you know,

she'd used my song in Promising Young Woman,

we'd met, we have some mutual friends,

but I wasn't expecting a text from Emerald

in December of 2024.

First of all, she like prank called me,

she kinda like ass called me,

like butt dialed me,

and I was like, Hello?

I was like, what?

It was like, so out of the blue.

And then she sort of panicked and like hung up

and then text me being like, Sorry.

I was like, oh, she must have just like

been trying to call someone else, okay.

And then she sort of, you know,

came through and was like,

I'm, you know, doing my interpretation

of 'Wuthering Heights',

I'd love for you to read the screenplay

and maybe do a song.

And I literally think I read it

like that day and the day after,

and I was in London at the time

and it was freezing cold,

like getting dark at 3:00 PM kind of a thing.

I was like already beginning to slip into the world

that she had created on the page.

I just felt so immediately inspired to,

I don't know, like write songs,

like straight away.

How quickly did you write-

Well, I mean- These songs?

It's funny because she did ask at the beginning,

she was like, Would you do a song?

And I remember I immediately called Finn

and I was like, Okay, Emerald wants me to do this.

She wants a song,

but we are gonna get her to let us do an album.

We're just gonna make it happen.

And he was like, Okay.

And I was like, It's happening.

Like, I want it, I really wanna do a whole record,

like, I just felt so inspired.

And just immediately started sending her stuff

actually before you were shooting,

because when did you start shooting?

Like late January?

Yeah. 25.

Late January of 25, exactly.

Yeah, and she was sending me sort of like

the kind of drawings of, you know, the set,

and like some mock images of the house and things like that.

I just felt so inspired

so I just wanted to jump at it.

Was Chains of Love the first one

that you got down?

No, the first one that we got down was-

[Margot] Everything Everywhere.

No, it's this song called Open Up,

which doesn't really have many lyrics.

This is in the film when you are sort of like

on the moors, it's very windy.

[Margot] Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's been used in some of the things

that have already come out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I don't know how people make songs and it amazes me

and every time like,

oh God, people are so talented,

you're so talented.

Is it like you and Finn in a room being like,

you've got a guitar or he's on the piano

and you're like,

What about this, what about this?

And then you're like,

All right, let's put a track down.

Like, in my head that's how it goes.

But like, how do you do it?

In a way it's so different to acting,

but there is a through thread in that it's in ways like

just this instinct that you have, right,

or this response that you have to what's on the page

or to how you feel.

I find it's like a lot of channeling feeling.

It's like the beginnings of the creation process for me.

And with these songs in particular, it was like,

I feel this atmosphere,

I wanna capture this feeling in a song,

I have Emerald's words

so let's begin, you know. Yeah.

I mean, how did you feel prepping for this role?

I mean, you've done this quite incredible thing

where you've made her sort of like lovable

and also very spontaneous and stubborn,

and sort of like immovable in her view,

which obviously is the way that she is in the book.

It's like, I wanna be her.

I know she's such like a diva in a way.

Yeah. She's a nightmare.

I mean, I- Yeah, no totally.

She's a totally nightmare. Totally.

But like, you're kind of like,

I love you. Yeah.

But you're a nightmare. How did you get there?

How did you? I like find,

I'm quite endeared to people who are exasperating

in that way,

who like push you to your limits

but you're still kind of like,

But there's something about you

that I will put up with it,

because I dunno why you're worth the effort

and the emotional toll that you take on me, but-

Sounds very toxic, But, yeah, kind of.

But like she is, I mean, Kathy's a total nightmare

and a total madam.

It's like some of the first things Emerald said about her.

And she didn't wanna shy away from that.

She can be very, very selfish,

and immature and cruel.

And I knew Emerald was gonna go for it

and not soften those edges,

which is why I love her films and why I love her.

I think most people's instincts,

especially when it comes to female roles,

they're like, well, let's, you know-

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because we'll probably lose the audience at that point,

like [mumbles].

And I really appreciated a filmmaker

who's brave enough to be like,

No, no, no, we're gonna go to the absolute furthest point

and if we need to win the audience back over,

then we're gonna have to work extremely hard

to win them back over

so we're just gonna have to be even better.

Which is so much more ambitious, I think,

than being like, well, let's soft play it

so she's not that unlikable,

and then, you know, she'll still be likable at the end.

And it's like, well, what's the point of that?

I can't take credit.

I could give any version of Kathy

that I knew Emerald would,

you know, I try to give every version that, you know,

paint with all the kind of colors

and hit both ends of the spectrum

and everything in between when I give takes

and know that Emerald, you know,

is gonna have everything she needs in the edit.

But knowing Emerald, I knew she'd want to be like

hitting the extremes with the character.

Yeah, yeah. And, and that's so fun.

So much more fun. Yeah.

And I've sort of seen you and Jacob talking about

your kind of chemistry on the set

and how like, it almost feels like,

it felt like you were like actually truly like,

inhabiting the roles like on and off.

Like, you know, it's like

it was, it felt like you were, like,

from what I've seen you say about

the sort of shooting of this film so far

that you were really like,

you just like fell into the whole atmosphere of it.

It was like, yeah, no,

it's like that thing,

and I don't know if there's like a feeling like this

when you're performing as a musician,

or if you felt this when you've been acting as well.

But like a few times in my career I've truly forgotten

where I was and what I was doing and who I was.

You just kind of transcend space and time for a second

and you are that character,

and you are in that place,

and there is no crew around you.

Like, everything else falls away.

And that's only like, truly felt that

that's happened a few times in my entire career.

I remember one time I felt it with Saoirse Ronan

and when we did Mary Queen of Scots

and it was so powerful,

and we were so locked in,

and we were like on the same wavelength

coming at it with so much buildup

that I truly forgot I was in a movie

and it was just her and I,

that feeling will sustain me the rest of my career.

I will always keep searching to have that feeling again.

And we had it, Jacob and I had it,

there was a moment where I actually felt like

he was Heathcliff and I was Kathy and we were on the moors

and it was like, like we transcended the moment,

it wasn't us and there wasn't a crew

and it was like, we became them for a second

and it was so crazy.

And I didn't say it out loud and I heard him say it

and he was like, There was this moment.

I was like, I felt the same thing.

Wow. That's so crazy.

That's so cool. And it's like,

those moments are like,

that's movie magic. Yeah.

That's like the thing that we keep chasing.

Do you ever feel that kind of moment

where you're like so in it,

or what's the equivalent of being like so in it.

Yeah, no, I mean I've definitely felt that,

I mean, in this film that I have, you know, just made,

I play like a heightened version of myself

and essentially the film is kind of about

if I had made like completely different choices

over the past two years

and sort of been like buckled under the pressure

and kind of like completely lost myself

in this insane like

transition phase in my life

because it was me kind of acting out these things

that were so like close to reality,

but I just took a right turn at the end, avoided it.

It was- Cathartic.

It was cathartic,

but also a little scary at points.

Yeah. Because I was like,

oh damn like- It's so real.

I do see myself really here. Yeah.

Like, you know what I mean? Yeah.

It's like, I have seen myself like crying and screaming

in the back of the car. Yeah.

And like having a total breakdown.

Yeah. That is so real to me

and specifically in that moment

because I really could have been there truly in my life

in that exact moment.

It's so funny with making this album

when obviously like making it at points in isolation

because I mean,

the thing that was amazing for me about Emerald

was how unbelievably trusting she was.

And I mean, you too as a producer, like,

you guys really just let me do my thing, you know?

And I really, it is like,

that is really not the way I find

with making music for films

and I think it takes a lot of confidence

and security in the project

and what you want to say to actually be able to like,

let people go and like do what they do.

So I really appreciate the way you guys

wanted to work with me like that.

And I think having made a lot of the music

kind of in isolation on my own,

and then beginning to sort of see things

that you had been shooting,

and then seeing the film

and applying it to the film.

What was so interesting was,

whilst I have always loved the songs,

seeing the opening of the film for the first time

with House,

and you know, the hanging,

and the moors,

I was like, I had shivers. Yeah, no, me too.

I had full shivers and I was just-

I'll never forget and it was playing House.

'Cause obviously we use temp music

until we can get you music in there.

It coarsed through my body.

Like, I felt like,

it was just like,

and then John Kale's voice. Yeah.

And then like your voice

and then like also Heath Cliff's dad.

Like- Yeah.

There was like a thrumming

it like almost thrummed through my body

and I was like, whoa.

And we'd always wanted that opening

to really like shock you into this time and place.

[Charli XCX] Yeah.

And then, but I could never have predicted

that that would be the song that you would give us

for that moment. Yeah.

Like I never would've predicted it.

That's why you shouldn't try to restrict artists

and be like, We trust you give us what you think.

Because otherwise if we'd been too prescriptive

it would've just been like,

you know, probably like a cool but maybe forgettable moment

and instead it like,

yeah, it elevated the moment so much.

It's so unexpected and so perfect for it.

Without giving too much away, I suppose,

what was your favorite part of this film to shoot

and what is your favorite,

or one of your favorite scenes when you watch it?

I loved shooting all the montage pieces

was so fun to shoot.

I mean that's when your songs

you get to really, really appreciate like,

'cause we couldn't fully use the lyrics

when you're playing that over the montage stuff as well.

In like Linton's House.

Yeah. And that, yeah, yeah, yeah.

That stuff 'cause that was just a total scramble.

That was like you making music videos.

It was always like,

we had 20 minutes left at the end of the day

and we'd always be like,

it was like a free for all.

Emerald would be like,

Grab something, put that,

like putting on those red glasses or whatever it'd be like.

And then it was like, you know,

Aussie our steady cam operators,

like, just like trying to capture anything.

And then same with like the

kind of like romantic montage sequence of Jacob and I,

that was also like always spare of the minute,

like particularly out in the moors

it would be like if we're waiting for light,

we'd be like,

I'd be like, Ooh, looks pretty over there.

Emerald would be like,

The light's good over there, go, go.

And we'd just sprint and like, I remember one time

Jacob was standing so far away

and we were like,

Oh, we've lost the light, we've lost light.

And Lena has got his thing out and he is like,

Yeah, I mean we've pretty much lost it.

And we're like,

Should we just try and get it?

Let's try and get it.

And like everyone's just get it go.

And I like screamed at Jacob, I'm like,

I'm just gonna run at you, okay.

And he was like, What?

And I was like,

I'm gonna run at you and I'm gonna kiss you, okay.

And he's like, I can't hear,

and I was like, forget it

and they were like, Action,

and I just like ran at him

and I don't think he knew what was happening

'cause he couldn't hear me

and I like ran and like jumped,

and you have to jump 'cause he's so tall.

Jumped into his arms and we kissed

and then like Ozzy just like wrapped around

and the crew like dropping down to the ground

so no one wanted to be in the back of this 360 shot

that no one had planned.

And it was just like this, and anyways,

hopefully you'll see the movie

if you are watching this conversation right now.

That was just one of those spare of the moment,

everyone like just, you know, you can spend-

Spontaneous. Just hundreds of people

spend months, and months, and months

carefully and intentionally planning things

and then there'll be something like that

that no one planned for.

And then you watch in the movie

and you're like,

like, I don't know for me,

I will remember that shot till the day I die,

like, I love it.